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josefw · 13-02-2010, 07:58 PM

this argument is bloody funny =]

stebull · 14-02-2010, 12:58 AM

(13-02-2010 03:11 PM)KaeruJim Wrote: Seriously guys, are you sniffing the Odsal smog or something??

I prefer to call it a "best team around ERA" Ste

No I'm being serious actually, and holding my ground. JP is a Bradford Academy product, and a fantastic one after Leeds missed him under their noses (like Jason Robinson and Ellery Hanley amongst others). If I was being pedandic I would mention he's still clearly in Leeds catchment, but the club missed him and fair play.

I don't know if "academy products" is a different definintion in the Bradford Oxford Dictionary; Vainikolo was signed from bloody Canberra NRL, and he's Tongan or whatever - under what planet does that make him a "Bradford product"? Hape was I think either signed from the Warriors or some feeder club, albeit at relatively young age. Robbie is from NEW ZEALAND as well - are you guys claiming Chris Caisley nurtered him on the Internet from age 12 or something? Again signed quite young but in no way an Academy product.

Paul Deacon was signed as an 18 year old from bloody Oldham.

We clearly don't have a common frame of reference for this argument chaps - for me, identiftying and coaching a player from 12 or 14 years of age counts as "Acedemy Product." At a pinch maybe 16. If the guy is actually English you get a bonus point; double points if he's from anywhere near your club and not signed out of someone else's territory because you're prepared to flash more cash and pick the cherries.

Leon Pryce, maybe Reardon, Langley, a handful more definitely, no argument would qualify under all these criteria, I'm not arguaing that point. But this is over more than a decade. And contrary to my other Bradofrd friend's claim, I think I'm being quite generous allowing a decade to capture your Peacocks, Fieldens and Pryces. If you look over the last five years or so the picture is even worse.

But in terms of investing money in trying to develoip their own, local talent, I maintain Bradford have a shocking record for one of the "big four" as was.

It's not just Leeds: Wigan last night had: Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, Sean O'Loughlin, Lee Mossop, Lee Hansen, Paul Prescott all just about first choice first teamers, with McIlorum out and 3 good players out on loan at Wigan, and England International Gareth Hock taking a sabbatical. They've provided other players like Terry Newton, Shaun Briscoe, Kevin Brown, Darrell Goulding and many more not only to other Super League sides but championship ones too. As a much smaller population than Bradford they develop far more local talent through a genuine system.

Saints would be a similar argument. Leeds goes without saying.

I was gracious to admit that Bradford may have some particular demographic issues in mitigation, but I think actually this has been part of their strategy, as stated by Caisely in CPW's earlier post. Their strategy was perfectly resonable in a business sense and they won a lot of success off the back of it.

Like I said, looking on a broader scale and developing "club" talent, wether either neighbours or abroad we seem to find the talent and nurture it well. The Wigan list? How many of them would you have in your dream team? Sam, yes but I'm afraid the rest are bit players in an above average team. Who will know how good the youngsters will become? Time will tell. Eastmond stands out along with Roberts (ozzie I know!) but who in the Leeds squad "goes without saying?"
Deacon, picked from obscurity at Oldham and developed into a feared kicker at the peak of his career. Fielden, same but obviously not as a kicker! Yes I'm going back a few years but who, apart from Moz and JP do the ozzies fear? Sam Burgess and Ellis.
I'm on about developing youngsters to be feared first team players, where ever they were born. Surely that is down to academy and backroom staff.
Catchment areas is limited and you gotta work with what you got. Because so many teams are so close together I can see the fight to get anyone with talent to sign for your team and because Leeds AT THE MOMENT are top dogs, I see why glory boys are signing for them but they are not giving them experience. Look at squads for last games and tell me development at Leeds is coming strong.

WakeyManDan8 · 14-02-2010, 08:37 AM

Bradford and Leeds have both produced some quality youngsters in the past, and they have also brought in young players and developed them at the club. (E.g Leeds with Jay Pitts). Why you are arguing to see who has produced more players is beyond me, but I would probably say they are very similar. However, IMO, the Leeds youngsters appear to be of a better quality than the Bulls ones. Burrow, McGuire, Diskin, Sinfield etc are all internationals, but players like Reardon, Kopzcak, Karl Pryce, etc arent exactly setting the world alight.

So, can we end this marmite now. They have produced a similar AMOUNT of players, but Leeds' have probably been of a slightly better QUALITY.

***Mickl84*** · 14-02-2010, 12:36 PM

I'm not arguing who has produced more, is evidently very clear that it's Leeds. However it's complete rubbish and everybody knows it that Bulls have a poor record.

KaeruJim · 14-02-2010, 05:56 PM

I don't know it Mick but I'll leave it there as we both have cats to find and kick after today's results.

daz · 18-02-2010, 08:17 PM

(06-02-2010 10:17 AM)KaeruJim Wrote: What for a hatful of trophies CPW? Wouldn't be the first club not to be able to sustain domninance ad infinitum.

I think you have a point about his record on youth development to an extent, but coaches tend to be expected to pruduce immediate results.

NO we av smith and elliot to thank 4 that i know exactly wot cpw means noble was left a very good team, didnt recruit well and the inevatable followed.